Kitebuilder Online

oren fima · Joined: 08 Oct 2003 Posts: 2

Hi,
I'm looking to buy two kinds of fabric in order to build a traction power kite.
I know that I need a spinnaker nylon rip stop fabric for the canopy and a Dacron rip stop fabric for the bladders.
I will appreciate if someone can guide me for a place to buy these fabrics online, Second quality and as cheep as possible.
The spinnaker, as well as the Dacron, needs to be light weight and strong.

Thanks,
Oren Fima

Israel

Progcraft · Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2003 5:36 pm Post subject:

Allow me to answer this Steve. Smile

HI oren fima.
Check this out: http://www.kitebuilder.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=24&osCsid=f2a7412de3b64781da1ea9d0af268698
Amazing how close you were eh Wink

Progcraft

Kitesquid · Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 9:18 am Post subject:

My views on Kite fabric...

Every fabric has a use. There are pros and cons to every decision when we build kites.

Nylon:

Pro or Con, Stretch. If you fly in gusty conditions this is the fabric of choice. The sail will give when a gust hits is and recover its shape. Nylon fibers have up to 50% stretch, more when wet or damp from a high humidity day.

Pro, Cost. Nylon is usually the least expensive of all the usual kite fabrics.

Pro or Con, Weight. Nylon is usually available in 1.5 and 0.75 oz per sailmakers yard. This weight is taken BEFORE the coating goes on for most fabrics, so your fabric may be marketed as 0.75 oz, but I have weighed some in at 1.7 oz per yard. Challenge is making a true 0.4oz Nylon but has limited availability and is about $10/Yd at Kite Studio and only comes in white, but you can dye it at home. My Iris Blossom kite that is in the photo album was made from it. I dyed it myself! I am currently working on dying Polyester fabric at home too. If you dye at home make sure you read the MSDS for all the chemicals you are planning on using!!!!!!

Con, Water. Water bonds to Nylon, like a tick on a dog… You just can’t get it off. They coat nylon sail cloth with Silicones, Urethanes and other proprietary compounds in an effort to control the bias stretch of the fabric and to a greater extent, fend off water. A boat sail LARGE compared to most kite sails and they can get VERY HEAVY and stretched way out of shape when the get wet. Sailcloth absorbs water from the air on a humid day, and when Nylon is wet it has more stretch.

Polyester:

Pro or Con, Stretch. Polyester does not stretch much compared to Nylon, so I would select it for a smooth or light wind day. It is a poor choice for gusty days.

Con, Cost. Polyester fibers cost more to produce than Nylon and Steve has to pass that cost on to us. I wish kite materials were free.

PRO, Weight. Polyester is stronger than Nylon for the same weight, so you can fly a lighter kite with the same strength of a Nylon kite. Water does not bond to it, so it does not get heavier with use.

Pro Water: Polyester does not attract water. If you kite gets wet while flying in the rain or on a humid day, just shake the lines and watch the water drop off and feel your kite get lighter…

I attended the AKA’s Grand National Kite Convention in Muncie and some of the sport kite flying was done in a light rain. Every one with a Nylon kites had trouble later in their routines as their kite became heavier. The Polyester kites did not have that problem...
_________________
VR/
KiteSquid
AKA TakoIka
AKA Harold
King George VA

P.S. Yet another long winded post by the Squid..... Shocked

P.P.S. The wind is like the air, only pushier.

Nathan A. · Joined: 04 Sep 2003 Posts: 1 Location: USA WA

Could someone explain the differences between the Challenge, North Cloth, and Bainbridge nylons? I am planning on building a traction foil, and I would like to know how these compare. I was planning on using 3/4 oz Bainbrige, but I though I would ask before I bought 16 yards of it!

Kitesquid · Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2003 7:37 am Post subject:

To me they are basically the same with a few differences.

They are all Nylon woven in a Ripstop pattern.

They are all about the same weight per yard.

The differences are in the fine tuning the manufactures do in the weaving process and the coating process in an effort to make their product the best for a particular boat sail application.

MOST ripstops are warp oriented, meaning that the fibers that run the length of the fabric (the warp fibers or if you live in Great Brittan the woof fibers) are straightest and the weft fibers (the ones that go across the fabric) have more bends in them to make the weave.

The fibers with more bends in them straighten out under load and stretch a little more than the already straight fibers.

What does that mean to you? Cut the fabrics out so that the least amount of stretch is in the direction where you have the highest loads or where the shape in flight is more critical... something for you to decide or it might be in the plans.

Now we have to address bias stretch. The bias of a fabric is at 45 degrees to the warp and weft fibers. This is were the fabric will stretch the most. To control this, the manufactures do several treatments to the fabric.

They can Calanderize (SP?) it. Meaning they mash the fabric between some heated rollers to lock the fibers together.

The can apply a proprietary coating to the fabric in an attempt to bond the fibers together. The coating also usually provides some UV protection and they also try to keep water from bonding to the nylon fibers.

What does this all mean to you?

IMHO buy the ¾ Oz nylon in the colors you like but try to build one kite with fabric from one manufacturer. You don’t have to stay to that guideline, but do NOT mix types of fabrics in one kite i.e. mixing Nylon and Polyester in the same kite as they have different amounts of stretch.
_________________
VR/
KiteSquid
AKA TakoIka
AKA Harold
King George VA

P.S. Yet another long winded post by the Squid..... Shocked

P.P.S. The wind is like the air, only pushier.

stevef · Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 2:48 pm Post subject:

good info brother squid... i should hire you.

Yes, they are all "basically" the same. But of the three, Bainbrige's .75 ounce has the 'softest' hand and 'slickest' coating... although still firm.

There is real good fabric construction info in the Tech Sheet section of kitebuilder, look for Article 10, or click here:
http://www.kitebuilder.com/techsheets/Fabrictech.htm

-Steve

btw Oren, your samples are on the way!
Smile

_________________
Steve Ferrel
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oren fima · Joined: 08 Oct 2003 Posts: 2

Hi Steve,

Thank you so much for the wonderful samples. They helped me a lot in understanding the type of fabric I need.

After testing & checking the samples, I've decided that I need 0.75 ounce spinnaker rip stop nylon from one of the manufactures - Bainbridge or north sails or challenge.

These fabrics shere enough strength and still have very light weight (the 0.5 are too light and week & the 1.5 is too heavy).

I need 1 roll of 100 meter of 0.75 ounce spinnaker fabric (no mater what color, company manufacture from the listed above, no mater what grade, Could be even grade d) & 25 meter of Dacron 3.9 ounce.

As I've said before, I'm looking to buy these fabrics at low prices as much as possible.

Please notify me the prices for the 100 meter/yards of spinnaker & 25 meter/yards of Dacron & the cost of the delivery to Israel.

Thanks again & kind regards,

Oren Fima

Zehariya Hatuka 10/9

Rehovot

76537

Israel

Tel: +97289495290
Cell phone: +97264299855

Kitesquid · Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 10:53 am Post subject:

Steve,

My hours are VERY expensive....... I have a kite addiction I need to finance.
_________________
VR/
KiteSquid
AKA TakoIka
AKA Harold
King George VA

P.S. Yet another long winded post by the Squid..... Shocked

P.P.S. The wind is like the air, only pushier.

littleguy · Joined: 09 Jan 2004 Posts: 1

Newbie questions

From reading posts here and elsewhere there seems to be 2 main types of materials used in making kites. OK, I know some kites are made of Mylar but isn't Mylar a DuPont brand - I guess there are no generic Mylar fabrics.

The 2 main types are Polyester and Nylon which are woven using the Ripstop method of weaving?

All the fancy names used are only brand names of the materials?

For example:

Some Nylon Ripstop brands are:
Carrington
Chikara
Texlon (I think this is a manufacturer which makes both Polyester and Nylon Ripstop)?

Some Polyester Ripstop brands are:
Polycarbonate icarex (PC31)
Ventex (HQ version of PC31)?
Toray (not sure if this is a manufacturer or a brand model)?
Texlon (I think this is a manufacturer which makes both Polyester and Nylon Ripstop)?

Are there other well known brands other there?

I saw the excellent summary of the general differences between polyster and nylon but are there differences between the brands within the same type of material?

Thanks

Kitesquid · Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 3:44 pm Post subject:

I am writing up a LONG respose to these questions....

Stay tuned
_________________
VR/
KiteSquid
AKA TakoIka
AKA Harold
King George VA

P.S. Yet another long winded post by the Squid..... Shocked

P.P.S. The wind is like the air, only pushier.