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Andre
Joined: 09 Feb 2011
Posts: 92
Location: Brasil
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 Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:07 pm Post subject: My First PanFlute |
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Yes, i build one. Well, the "Burrito Roll" is very simple to do, i could not imagine. I take 2:30 hours to make it and still do not flew, cause is Night and no wind today.
My first impression running with it in the backyard id that it need A little bit more wind than the Delta kite. I think, that to start a fly something about 15mph (+- 25kmh).
My question is about the tail. I think that if i use a drogue it will have many drag. I was thinking something like Fuzzy Tail. What do you think.
The pictures Ill post tomorrow, cause the battery of my photographic camera is without energy  Ooops, I owe pictures of the sled also. Soon as i can Ill make the videos and the photos. I hope that tomorrow the wind blows so well for a flute.
The colors is the same as others that i build, cause i still do not buy many fabric, and to finish the red color to back the shop since I became interested in the purpose of build kites.
I do not walk very well is with my sewing machine, which broke the support of the coil so I finished the kite. It is in the shop for repairs. 
Well, I'm leaving a hug, after going away for a little while because of work. |
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OldGoat
Joined: 01 Apr 2006
Posts: 2700
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| Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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Andre I look forward to the photos. As to a tail for your flute, well you don't really need one. It should fly just fine without one but if you want to add a tail because they are pretty then almost anykind will do.
Not too much drag though  |
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DarrylW
Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Posts: 1779
Location: Holland, Michigan
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| Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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I like giving a pan flute a long ribbon tail. The pan flute will wobble a lot, and the tail will show the wobble. Just looks like it is having fun in the sky like that.
Darryl
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If I knew what I was saying, I probably wouldn't have said it. |
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Andre
Joined: 09 Feb 2011
Posts: 92
Location: Brasil
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:42 am Post subject: |
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Thank you OldGoat, Ill try fly it without tail first, but i like the "snake"visual of the tail in these kites.
DarrylW, A ribbon seems a good tail. My Panflute is the standard size 85cm with 7 tubes, like the plans.
What size do you recommend?
Thank you all.  |
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kiteguy
Kitebuilder of the Year 2005
Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Posts: 8651
Location: USA - Kansas, Overland Park - Near Kansas City
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:25 am Post subject: |
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I have made the 7 tube, and 8 tube panflutes. I can not tell any difference in flying. I have made a couple that were 5 ft from nose to tail. They flew fine, but I no longer have them. Traded one for another custom kite, and donated one into a raffle.
Also, I have grown fond of the fuzzy tails.
I like to fly two of them on a Y configuration of the kite line. A swivel at the bottom of the V part fastened to the l part of the flying line. Actually, I make one leg the top part of the Y a bit longer than the other. However, I suspect they would fly fine if the legs were the same length. I may try that this weekend.
I have never found the wind to strong for these kites. 
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Dave Ellis
Kites + Kids = Education
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OldGoat
Joined: 01 Apr 2006
Posts: 2700
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | i like the "snake"visual of the tail in these kites. |
Me too, in fact all of my flutes have two tube tails. One one each side. I like the way they "dance." |
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planish
Joined: 19 Aug 2008
Posts: 3749
Location: Canada, New Brunswick, Sackville
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 1:06 am Post subject: Re: My First PanFlute |
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| Andre wrote: | | My question is about the tail. I think that if i use a drogue it will have many drag. I was thinking something like Fuzzy Tail. What do you think. |
You could always make the drogue smaller or have less taper than usual, if you don't want so much drag. With less taper the wind should pass through more easily, even if the drogue is still normal size.
Even though a bucket-style drogue might be practical and efficient, I think it is the most boring sort of tail I can imagine. (unless it is has some clever colour pattern that reflects the theme of the kite its attached to.)
Much nicer to use a tube, fuzzy, or ribbon tail, or a spinsock sort of thing.
Off topic: "drogue" always reminds me of Alex's "droogs" (pals, gang members) in the movie "A Clockwork Orange".
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- John Rose -
In progress: Cowboy Bebop's "Ed" Ohashi Variant
ToDo list: Bird themed banner and/or kite; small Rok; Houndstooth pattern applique for Ohashi variant; Marilyn Monroe portrait kite; Dave Wadeson's "Mouse"; Manga Multiconos line laundry; Supersled or Pilot lifter. |
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powder_pig
Master Kite Builder
Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 5612
Location: Portland, OR, AKA Region 9
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 1:59 am Post subject: |
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If it were me...I wouldn't put too much drag in the tail of a Panflute. It isn't a kite that flies at a high angle and a big drag will keep it even lower. IMHO 
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Ron
It's sunny and windy in the summer and cold and snowy in the winter...this must be what heaven is like. |
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Andre
Joined: 09 Feb 2011
Posts: 92
Location: Brasil
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 3:34 am Post subject: |
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Well, still have no photos, cause the day was long in work, but in lunch hour i flew it for 5 minutes. I think that the wind was in 15kmh, but in wind gusts and soon calmed down, so there was not time to film or photograph, but a little one small thing I noticed was that the side tubes veered down, but I realized that I enclose the tail of the wrong way. I found in my things a little piece of satin ribbon 1m more less, But as you can see in the picture it is in the middle tunnel only, Ill change it tomorrow. On the upside of the draw, is a side view, that i believe it happened because of tail place. Tomorrow Ill buy 15m of ribbon to see the effect. And if the wind is stable,one video Ill make.
Well, I think I'll stick with the ribbon tail because of the visual that it provides.
One tube is a bit out of my plan, and I not have that much experience to make something more complex. From what I've been reading a non conical tube must have a narrow air passage at the end like this:
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Anyway i would like to thank you and soon as wind help Ill upload the video an fotos. |
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kiteguy
Kitebuilder of the Year 2005
Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Posts: 8651
Location: USA - Kansas, Overland Park - Near Kansas City
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:03 am Post subject: |
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On my latest pan flute kites I made the rear opening smaller. It seemed to help the flying a bit. A bit more inflatable and a bit less sled, maybe. 
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Dave Ellis
Kites + Kids = Education
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planish
Joined: 19 Aug 2008
Posts: 3749
Location: Canada, New Brunswick, Sackville
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:58 am Post subject: |
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| kiteguy wrote: | Also, I have grown fond of the fuzzy tails.
I like to fly two of them on a Y configuration of the Kite Line. A swivel at the bottom of the V part fastened to the l part of the flying line. Actually, I make one leg the top part of the Y a bit longer than the other. However, I suspect they would fly fine if the legs were the same length. |
I'm afraid I'm totally lost. Got a drawing or photo?
_________________
- John Rose -
In progress: Cowboy Bebop's "Ed" Ohashi Variant
ToDo list: Bird themed banner and/or kite; small Rok; Houndstooth pattern applique for Ohashi variant; Marilyn Monroe portrait kite; Dave Wadeson's "Mouse"; Manga Multiconos line laundry; Supersled or Pilot lifter. |
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Andre
Joined: 09 Feb 2011
Posts: 92
Location: Brasil
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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| kiteguy wrote: | | On my latest pan flute kites I made the rear opening smaller. It seemed to help the flying a bit. A bit more inflatable and a bit less sled, maybe. |
I saw that, USA flag design? and i think that GrantL make de close too. In GrantL experiences he told that he sewed the back of the tube in 5cm. Now im confused. I dont know if it was in back to close the tube or in front joining the the sail to help the inflate of the tubes. If was in rear this represents 44% of reduce in the width of rear side of the botton sail and 20% of reduce in the width of rear side of top sail of the tube. But he build a large version of the kite.
Im thinking to sew the hole of back of the kite, or put a clip before to sew, and see how it go fly. Or put one ilhós (i dont know how to write in english and google give me the same word, a picture will help) in each back outside along the sewing:
Or maybe too weight to this size of kite in low wind. I use 3/4 coated ripstop nylon.
Last edited by Andre on Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Andre
Joined: 09 Feb 2011
Posts: 92
Location: Brasil
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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| planish wrote: | | I'm afraid I'm totally lost. Got a drawing or photo? |
Me too.  |
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kiteguy
Kitebuilder of the Year 2005
Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Posts: 8651
Location: USA - Kansas, Overland Park - Near Kansas City
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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| planish wrote: |
I'm afraid I'm totally lost. Got a drawing or photo? |
OK, stand up. Straight. You are a kite line.
Now raise both arms to form a Y with your body.
Now put a kite in each hand, and pretend that your head is a fishing swivel.
Have a fuzzy U tail on each kite. Put yourself (kite line with two branches holding the kites) into the wind, and let them fly. Lots of wiggle action! 
Wait, maybe you were confused when I said "them". The "them" was talking about the two kites.
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Dave Ellis
Kites + Kids = Education
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OldGoat
Joined: 01 Apr 2006
Posts: 2700
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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Er ah Dave do you mean a U tail on each kite? Then.......connect the two U tails to another tail then ........ connect the <standing here with my arms in the air pretending to be the kite line>  |
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powder_pig
Master Kite Builder
Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 5612
Location: Portland, OR, AKA Region 9
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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I think we need a diagram. I would volunteer but I am as confused as everybody but Dave. (Normal state for me) 
Is this what you are talking about?
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Ron
It's sunny and windy in the summer and cold and snowy in the winter...this must be what heaven is like. |
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Andre
Joined: 09 Feb 2011
Posts: 92
Location: Brasil
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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Well, Ill try too.
I undestood this:
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TBHinPhilly
Master Kite Builder
Joined: 30 Sep 2010
Posts: 3555
Location: Mt. Airy, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Andre wrote: | | Now im confused. I dont know if it was in back to close the tube or in front joining the the sail to help the inflate of the tubes. If was in rear this represents 44% of reduce in the width of rear side of the botton sail and 20% of reduce in the width of rear side of top sail of the tube. |
Cut the tubes as per the plans. Sew the front at the plan measurements - this is as wide as they can be and allows for inflation. Keeping the flat bottom or face of the kite the same size, simply sew the tubes in by 5cm on the top. This narrows the flute at the back end and restricts exiting air thus keeping the tubes inflated. There will be flat sections on top between the tubes - but the actual back of the kite will not be narrower.
| Andre wrote: | | Im thinking to sew the hole of back of the kite, or put a clip before to sew, and see how it go fly. Or put one ilhós (i dont know how to write in english and google give me the same word, a picture will help) in each back outside along the sewing. |
Sewing it down when you build it probably makes the most sense. If it is going to be a modification, there would be no issue with using a clip to try it out before sewing it down.
A grommet would not be my first choice for narrowing the tubes. Grommets are good for creating an attachment point for a tail. They do, however, need to be put in through a reinforced area.
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kiteguy
Kitebuilder of the Year 2005
Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Posts: 8651
Location: USA - Kansas, Overland Park - Near Kansas City
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| OldGoat wrote: | | Er ah Dave do you mean a U tail on each kite? |
Yes, just flying two kites, with their own tails, kites branched to the one flying line. Or branch out with two or three more kites. Lots of happy kites wagging their tails behind, and one happy kite guy watching them frolic.
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Dave Ellis
Kites + Kids = Education
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kiteguy
Kitebuilder of the Year 2005
Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Posts: 8651
Location: USA - Kansas, Overland Park - Near Kansas City
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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From 7 years ago. Made for a friend. 5 ft tall. No tail/drogue needed. 8 cells.
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Dave Ellis
Kites + Kids = Education
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