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wind in the willows
Joined: 10 Jan 2009
Posts: 16
Location: St. Albans UK
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 Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 9:17 am Post subject: Ghost clipper idea!!! |
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Hi All
Years ago I bought and built the Ghost clipper by Squadron kites it was a great kite but unfortunately due to very strong winds and an urge to keep it flying it gradually dis-integrated and fell from the sky.
It was a great flight and i thoroughly enjoyed the experience and would like to repeat this in the near future
Due to it being completely unrepairable, I decided that one day I would attempt a carbon fiber and ripstop nylon version. has anyone attempted this?
If so how did you get on and what were the problems involved.
This will be a challenging build.
I await you replies with keen interest.  |
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Pumpkin
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 7955
Location: Birmingham UK
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| Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:45 am Post subject: |
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Watcha Windinthe Willows and welcome
Do you mean this one ?
IF so, I don't know any plans and as it's still a commercial product I doubt they exist..... or at least they shouldn't.
http://www.bananajunctiontoys.com/catalog/index.php?manufacturers_id=30
Which gives a few options
Buy a new one...... cheap enough even with shipping from USA 
IF you've got enough of your original left, fully renovate (blatent copy)
USe the design as a base for designing your own....use crbon and RSN...or even icarex... explore options away from the clipper or at least add improvements from all those times you thought "if only"....like removable sails for higher wind days maybe 
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Pete
Where did you say the string goes? |
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smarties
Kite Builder II
Joined: 06 Nov 2003
Posts: 2783
Location: Dieppe, NB, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:41 am Post subject: |
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That's a cool kite  I wanted to build a pirate ship for the last few years. This gives me some good ideas how to do it.
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Smarties 
http://www.yvonhache.com
To boldly go where no imagination as gone before!  |
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KiteSquid
Master Kite Builder
Joined: 29 Aug 2003
Posts: 11696
Location: USA Virginia King George
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| Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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Welcome Aboard!!!!!!!
I don't have one of those kites, but I have a kite flying friend that in his youth made those kites and set them on fire and then launched them.....
It was a VERY bad idea from a safety standpoint!!!!!!
I agree that you should design your own version of a clipper ship kite!!!
I would like to see one that would fly in 2-30 MPH winds!!!!!! which I think would be easily done.
Please post photos of your progress!!!!
_________________
VR/
KiteSquid AKA TakoIka AKA Harold of King George VA
PS Yet another post by the Squid...  Doesn’t he ever shut up?
PPS The wind is like the air, only pushier.
PPPS All information provided is for hobby use. None may be used commercially.
PPPPS Vir sapit qui pauca loquitur. x11.5K
PPPPPS Please excuse my speling errorors. |
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wind in the willows
Joined: 10 Jan 2009
Posts: 16
Location: St. Albans UK
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:00 am Post subject: |
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Hi and thank you for the welcome,
Yes that's the one in the photo, and i do not have any of it left so a new one would probably be best.
It did fly very well although it needed very strong winds.
it was quite fragile being made of very thin strips of wood and tissue paper with a ballast weight in the front but it did look quite spectacular in the air.
maybe a size increase would improve flights in lighter winds?
I am currently (But slowly) building a doublestar at the moment so this is very much in the planning stage.
how about an all black version for the pirate ship idea? |
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Fore Check
Grand Champion, Kite, & Kitebuilder of the Year 09
Joined: 15 Jun 2008
Posts: 3848
Location: The Montessori School of Kites (near Findlay, OH)
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:58 am Post subject: |
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| KiteSquid wrote: |
I would like to see one that would fly in 2-30 MPH winds!!!!!! which I think would be easily done.
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Really?
Please share your ideas becasue that sounds like an extraordinary challenge on a kite of this type (at least to me.)
And simply saying "build it out of Icarex and Carbon" isn't really the answer.... The key on a kite like this is going to be the strength and design of the frame as a whole, the spar-to-spar connections and the rigging. Not to mention the configuration of the lifting surfaces so that they present themselves to the wind to do their job as "lifting surfaces" - not just stick out of the top of the kite as heavy decorations (in other words, the design itself isn't very efficient, with said efficiency being sacrificed to achieve the really cool look.)
My experience with the ripstop ships that are commercially available is that they need a good dose of wind to fly, then they need a tail if the wind is much more than the bare minimum to get 'em airborne, and then if the wind increases again just a bit the frame design goes nuts and things really get bad. (In other words, a very *limited* wind range)
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Simon
Discovering Something that Doesn't Exist...
Radix Lecti Rex
Last edited by Fore Check on Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:28 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Pumpkin
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 7955
Location: Birmingham UK
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:27 am Post subject: |
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You've been watching Pirates of the Carribean again
Black pirate ship...... lovely jubbly
Size does matter with kites...and weight and drag.
The galleon design has small sail area... loads of drag and depending on sparring, can be quite weighty...hence the higher wind
If I was designing...some thoughts
I'd be looking to increase sail area....both wider and deeper. But allow to remove some for higher wind days
The height of 60" x 48 long seems a nice size to me.
The clipper hull is deck and keel only so shows the shape without the drag of a boat hull, as I've seen some done with
masts..... with some support lines I reckon I'd be happy with 3mm or 4mm CF (pultruded) verticles, 3mm CF deck spar 1 or 2mm for the keel and gunwhales with 1mm maybe 1.5 for the crossspars
About 10 years ago I met a guy who's old dad made these in his garden shed,,,, balsa, split bamboo, broom hairs and tissue paper...wonderful creations that the grandkids flew to destruction each weekend.
Dunno if he's still around but if you're in the Bridport area of Devon keep an eye open
BTW....if you've got a Cosco nearby, the XL Galleon is quite a good example of the style and I've seen em flying in about 10 to 12mph...... never at a high elevation mind you
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Pete
Where did you say the string goes?
Last edited by Pumpkin on Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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KiteSquid
Master Kite Builder
Joined: 29 Aug 2003
Posts: 11696
Location: USA Virginia King George
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Fore Check wrote: | | KiteSquid wrote: |
I would like to see one that would fly in 2-30 MPH winds!!!!!! which I think would be easily done.
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Really?
Please share your ideas because that sounds like an extraordinary challenge on a kite of this type (at least to me.) |
Build it out of Icarex and Carbon 
I would start with scaling it up to about 200-400% size, or whatever fits an increment of 32.5" tubes to minimize the mass added by using Ferrels. Also like stated by Pumpkin, I would scale up the surface area of the sails, and try to make them more efficient.
For durability sake I would make it out of Icarex PC-31 fabric, SSP90 for the masts and P300 for the keel, 0.125 pultureded carbon tubes (or lighter) for the spars, and #10 Spectra for the rigging. thsi rigging must be crossed to make the system rigid, and light. Look HERE for the concept of cross braced lightweight framing in a boat.
The spar to mast coupling would have to be LIGHT WEIGHT, maybe bent stainless wire, Rare Earth Magnets, or possibly just drilling the mast to accept the spar, but that would increase assembly/disassemble time at the field.
Now comes the MAGIC...... you must put in a self adjusting bridle, like Bill Bigge uses on his Janus kites. This would allow the kite to change its AoA dynamically when there is excess wind in the sails.
Also it should be bridled so you don't have to add any mass to the keel to keep it upright, but I would have to play with it to figure it out....
_________________
VR/
KiteSquid AKA TakoIka AKA Harold of King George VA
PS Yet another post by the Squid... Doesn’t he ever shut up?
PPS The wind is like the air, only pushier.
PPPS All information provided is for hobby use. None may be used commercially.
PPPPS Vir sapit qui pauca loquitur. x11.5K
PPPPPS Please excuse my speling errorors. |
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Fore Check
Grand Champion, Kite, & Kitebuilder of the Year 09
Joined: 15 Jun 2008
Posts: 3848
Location: The Montessori School of Kites (near Findlay, OH)
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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Sounds easy.
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Simon
Discovering Something that Doesn't Exist...
Radix Lecti Rex |
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Pumpkin
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 7955
Location: Birmingham UK
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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When you think more on it there is a very good example of a mast sail configuration....cirque's ruby pagoda (from Why@t's ladder)
Rainer Hoffmans bow Kite could be another starting point
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Pete
Where did you say the string goes? |
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KiteSquid
Master Kite Builder
Joined: 29 Aug 2003
Posts: 11696
Location: USA Virginia King George
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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The idea should be to maximize lift with minimum drag and mass.
Pumpkin, Thanks for the reminder via photo!!!!!
_________________
VR/
KiteSquid AKA TakoIka AKA Harold of King George VA
PS Yet another post by the Squid... Doesn’t he ever shut up?
PPS The wind is like the air, only pushier.
PPPS All information provided is for hobby use. None may be used commercially.
PPPPS Vir sapit qui pauca loquitur. x11.5K
PPPPPS Please excuse my speling errorors. |
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wind in the willows
Joined: 10 Jan 2009
Posts: 16
Location: St. Albans UK
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 9:07 am Post subject: |
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| If i remember correctly their was no rigging on the original and no tail, as a tail would spoil the look in flight. Stability was probably achieved by the unique shape of the flat hull and some lift was created by the flat deck. Sleeving ripstop to slide over the frame work would make construction more complicated so gluing to the framework is probably the best option. readily available dihedrals for the "wings" might make this a bit easier, any thoughts??? |
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Grant L
Kite of the Year 2004
Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Posts: 2993
Location: USA IN Indianapolis
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| Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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One available on eBay right now if you wanted one for reference
Item # 290293110218 |
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