Kitebuilder.com - Fly... with a little help from your friends.

[Fool]

Reading ken's replies in another thread about wanting to see kite details I decided this would be a good thread conversation that could possibly be sticky'd in the future for more to see and use in their own builds.

I'm heavy into trick flying, so I'm always looking for a new idea to incorperate into the sport kites I build. Here is a picture list of the things I've taken notice of from either manufactured sport kites or homebuilt. Please join me in this discussion with your ideas and thoughts.

If I give credit to the wrong person for the idea please send me a PM and I'll correct it.

The following pictures are from Jest of Eve kites. He builds some wonderful newer styled kites with top of the line quality over in the UK.

All clickable thumbnails.

Nose

Very nice but still the posibility for snagging in backspin type manuvers.



Tail also my prefered method



Standoffs also my prefered method

These flip down out of the way for storage and are covered on the backside of the kite to Eliminate snagging.

Wingtip


Leading edge covers for yoyo manuvers also my prefered method

I believe Benson was first to use this idea but I could be wrong.

Rollbar & yoyo cage

This is a really nice setup when you are going to incorperate a rollbar or yoyo cage into your design. also my prefered method If I didn't use a yoyo stopper.


The following are from other various designers and builders.

Nose also my prefered method

This is Jason Garner's A-game Nose. I believe the Idea originated from Lam Hoac though. It's very snag free and with the right materials and craftsmanship should be indistructible. I will also note using Cordura is my prefered nose material over nylon webbing. (although sometimes I still use webbing)

Matt Brown's Nose treatment


Aerostar sportkites' shape shifter standoffs
To see the standoffs moving click on link above.

This idea I believe is patented or something or another, so if you plan on building for yourself go ahead and use it, if you plan on building to sell I'd suggest not using it. I tend to still just use two standoff connectors on the lower spreader.

Aerostar Sano Nose

Another snag free solution and a very nice one at that. Probably my second favorite idea for nose work.

The following are from Tim Benson's latest kite the Deep Space

Tail

This is an extremely clean tail section from the back side. Nearly impossible to snag. I tried this one with dacron but didn't get it the way I wanted so I haven't tried it since. I may try again with Cordura depending on the application. For ease of building I still use the other method listed.

Wing Tip

also my prefered method but I use a tension system similar to a Blue moon kites tensioner.

Tensioner also my prefered method

This is the Blue moon kites wingtip tensioning system

Yoyo stopper also my prefered method

This is Lam Hoac's Sea Devil. Photo taken by Ed on webshots.(Ezme6)

Velcro standoff attachments from our very own Dupont spinner (thanks for this nice idea Ken)


Credits
Mark @ http://www.jestofevekites.com/
Lam @ http://www.skysportdesign.com/
Jason @ http://www.outsidetheboxkitestudio.com/
Tim @ http://www.bensonkites.com/
Ken @ http://www.bluemoonkites.com/
Paul @ http://www.aerostarsportkites.com/
Ezme6 & photobill for their photos on webshots
Ken for his standoffs and Matt for his nose

ps: these are only my personal preferences of building details of dual line sport kites. For more info on framing, bridling search around on the forum. Hopefully we can expand this discussion more and possible add to it as more new ideas emerge.
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[wufer]

. WOW never seen such clear pics. Now all we need is the same for our REV friends. I for one would love to see closeups ov a REV in such clarity. NICE post Fool wufer

[Fool]

[Deliriousgym]

Great pics!! I have seen a lot of them searching the web for ideas for my own kites. You already picked out most of my favorite design tech. It seems that simple and clean is best for the tricking. Each one of my kites has certain build features that I like as well as dislike. Great thing about building them yourself is you can incorporate all the things that work for you and eliminate what you don't like. Good idea Fool!!
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Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

Casey Dunn
Post Falls, Idaho

[stuartb]

Sorry, no pics.

I use many of these techniques as well, although none as neatly as these examples. I'm still in the stone age with noses but I am on the lookout for a source of Cordura or similar material. I have had the opportunity to inspect one of Mark's Tridents (UL #1) at close quarters and the quality of workmanship on that kite is uniformly good - he didn't just pick the best bits to photograph!

I don't use bungee for wingtip tensioning any more but use a loop of bridle line doubled as in the Blue Moon photo, except that I have had problems with durability of sewn on loops and have gone back to using holes in the leading edges.

I try to avoid having a seam on the spine by gluing the halves of the sail together then gluing a 25mm (one inch) strip of whatever the kite is made of to front and back and sewing along both edges of these strips with a 3-step zig-zag. I am not sure that the effect is as good looking as just a single seam along the spine, and the strips sometimes need to be in several pieces to match the colouring of the kite. I usually use ordinary or heavy duty glue sticks to stick panels together - they work very well with Icarex and I can wash off my mistakes.

Not really a feature that you see on the finished kite, but to lay up the halves of the wing and get them joined together accurately I use a length of thick card (same as I use for templates) that I have marked with centre line, seam widths, nose, centre-tee and tail positions for the kites that I build. The 6mm taper needed for the centre-tee to tail bit to compensate for the curvature of the spine are also marked at the tail - I don't suppose these are essential on a Nylon kite but Icarex sails have creases in them if they aren't made slightly three-dimensional like this.

Leach lines are tensioned by pulling them up to a short length of bungee looped around the centre-tee. I think this method was suggested as part of the discussions surrounding the building of the Virus but I don't know who by. The effectiveness of this system depends on how carefully the various parts that come together at the tail are assembled.

I mostly weight my kites with mild steel tube of 6mm internal diameter, but the earlier ones are going rusty so I am now experimenting with 4mm brass rod inserted inside the spine (like everyone else!). These weighting materials, as well as the bits of aluminium tube for joining spars together, all come by the metre from my local DIY shop (B&Q in the UK).

I use glue-lined heatshrink tubing to keep fittings in place and to reinforce lower spreaders at the centre tee. It forms a convincingly solid jacket round the spar but the adhesive can be softened with hot water if it needs to be removed. With two-part leading edges the stoppers don't need to be removed when dismantling the kite (unless the upper leading edge is a 101cm 3PT as in my Virus Light).

[DuPont Spinner]

Thanks, Chris for picking up on my post. This is exactly what I, as well as others it appears, was looking for. I think a lot of builders continue to look for other methods to improve their kites, and it's in the details that provide a certain amount of satisfaction. Thanks again.

Ken
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Wipe off the blood and get back in the game.

http://community.webshots.com/user/kenskites

[StringDriver]

WOW, Chris - great post...

I'm sure everyone got a look at some of that WORLD CLASS SEWING in a few
of those pics !

GEEEEEEEEEEEEEYYYYYAAAWWD, have I got a long way to go!

Thanks for the effort (and I'm sure there was a BUNCH of effort) in putting this post together.


Ron

p.s. great to fly with you Sunday!

[FlyingWolf]

Nice pics, I especially liked the standoffs that flip out of the way, I'll have to do some thinking about adapting that for my design with JACO sail grabbers.

I'll add my wingtip design, the LE tunel extends beyond the 'real' wingtip and the tensioning is done INSIDE by (more or less) the same method as on the blue moon shown. As the Leachline is sewn into the TE at the wingtip (and tensioned at the spine) this makes for a VERY clean tip design with no visable hardware and little, or no possibility of anything getting hung up on it.
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Hans
For those who are curious: http://web.mac.com/hpraue/iWeb/Hans/Kitebag.html

For every problem there is an obvious, easy to implement WRONG solution. Corollary: most REAL solutions are neither obvious nor easy.
(adapted from H.L. Mencken)

[Deliriousgym]

I realy like the Blue Moon wing tip. I going to buy one of those riveting tools to make clean strong holes in the LE tunel. I had a kite with a similar set up only it didn't have a eyelet and the hole in the tunnel wore out a little. How is Deep Space tail sewn together... man that is clean!!!
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Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

Casey Dunn
Post Falls, Idaho

[Fool]

[Fool]

[Fool]

[Fool]

Ok, here's a picture explanation of what Stuartb refered to when talking about sail wrinkles around the center-t and standoffs.

Christian Derefat's Virus Template


You'll notice a black straight edge has been lined up with the edge of the template along the center seam. Then at the bottom where the tail comes into a point there has been a slight curve of material removed from the template. This straightens out the keel of the kite and makes it tight between the spine and standoffs when assembled. With nylon over time it will stretch and straighten itself out but with poly it will not. This is a very useful technique.
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[Deliriousgym]

[Fool]

[stuartb]

[Deliriousgym]

That make sense. 1/2 " seem a bit much but what do I know? It sounds like a two piece center panel is the only way to go. This is getting off topic sorry Fool, but how big should my seem allowance be on my spine seem?
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Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

Casey Dunn
Post Falls, Idaho

[Fool]

[Jest_of_EVE]

Hey!

Thanks for the good words about my kites.

Thought I'd drop in and say that although I like the 3-piece nose for it's clean edge, I don't enjoy the construction much! It's always the last stitching job at the end of a long day and requires concentration.

I've been working on a 1-piece nose along similar lines and have just added it to my own Trident.





Bit of a hash job, but it's hard to teach a used kite a new nose!

The excess material is left sticking up at the back of the sail and rather than hot-cut it away, I'm going to give it a test-fly. I'm thinking, although it's a long shot, that this might act as a stabliser of sorts in flight.

I did say 'longshot'! Can't see it being snag-fodder yet, but if it turns out to be useless then it can be easily hotcut away.

Mark
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"If a thing's worth doing, it's worth doing right."

[Pumpkin]