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Quad Nut
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 2588
Location: Massapequa, Long Island
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 Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:15 am Post subject: Quad Sail Plan |
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I had several requests from members, for a recommendation as to which quad to build for a new quad flyer.
I've refered them to this thread for comments on my first choice, the Freedom 2000 by Jean-Pierre Gleyzes. 
For those learning to fly on their own, I recommend you scale up the plan for a LE between 105"-108". If you'll have help learning to fly, build it in the original size.(90") 
If you would rather take the fast lane with the template layout, I've drawn up my version of the 'all around flight', seam pattern.
This is the same pattern used on the quads in my avatar. 
This pattern does not include the LE vent or the LE pocket.
I have this sail plan in PDF form, for those of you who would like a copy.
The size choices are - Full size - 22x17 tiled - 11x17 tiled.
Drop me a PM and I'll be happy to send it to you. 
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kiteguy
Kitebuilder of the Year 2005
Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Posts: 8805
Location: USA - Kansas, Overland Park - Near Kansas City
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| Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 2:22 am Post subject: |
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I am thinking that weave of the material layout for each panel is importent. Or is it? I thought at first that the straight edges of the material would be on the outside edges of the kite.
Is it drawn on the pattern, but faintly so that I could not see it? These glasses I wear sometimes don't see verything at which I am looking. 
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Dave Ellis
Kites + Kids = Education |
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Dorsal
Kite Builder II
Joined: 05 Oct 2003
Posts: 735
Location: USA California Tracy - 50 miles to the right of San Francisco
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| Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 2:27 am Post subject: |
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I think I would probably cut the material so the weave was parallel or perpendicular to the 6.00 dimension line. This is because all the stresses on the sail are running either parallel to the Leading Edge, or parallel to the vertical rods.
But that's just my engineering opinion. |
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Quad Nut
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 2588
Location: Massapequa, Long Island
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| Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:03 am Post subject: |
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| kiteguy wrote: | | I am thinking that weave of the material layout for each panel is importent. Or is it? |
Well, you're right Dave, yes and no. 
I'm assuming 'weave' you're refering to the bias.
There is always stretch. This seam pattern is the result of many 'experiments' with the bias orientation relative to the seams.
In this config the distance between seams is fairly short. Stretch is a percentage of the fabric's span. The potencial for stretch is greatest along the longest seams. BUT, since the airflow across the sail is generally in the same direction as the longer seams, the stretch is 'almost' non-existant.
| kiteguy wrote: | | Is it drawn on the pattern, but faintly so that I could not see it? |
No. I didn't show bias orientation. For this seam layout, on this sail shape, I've found it not to be a factor in flight performance.
However, the direction of the bias on each panel should be the same for the corresponding mirrored panel.
(just good building practice)
| Dorsal wrote: | I think I would probably cut the material so the weave was parallel or perpendicular to the 6.00 dimension line. This is because all the stresses on the sail are running either parallel to the Leading Edge, or parallel to the vertical rods.
But that's just my engineering opinion. |
Yup yup. You know your 'Rev' type quads, Dennis.
The center is a high stress point. Extra layers and multiple stitch lines is always a good idea in these types of places.
I've reduced the depth of the center from the original plan. That helps lower the pull and the stress down the middle.
(in addition to some flight enhancement)
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Fool
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 1525
Location: Dayton, OH
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| Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:22 am Post subject: |
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How close is this to a Rev 1.5 in overall dimensions? I may just have to build one of these since I've been wanting a 1.5.
How do you frame it as well?
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MtnFlyer
Master Kite Builder
Joined: 17 Dec 2003
Posts: 420
Location: Steamboat Springs. Colorado
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| Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:39 am Post subject: |
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All interesting questions above. I'll be watching this thread.
Many thanks for sharing, Steve!
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Dorsal
Kite Builder II
Joined: 05 Oct 2003
Posts: 735
Location: USA California Tracy - 50 miles to the right of San Francisco
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| Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:44 am Post subject: |
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| @Fool - you did NOT read the thread that Quad Nut linked in the very first post, under the word "this" in his second sentence, did you? |
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Fool
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 1525
Location: Dayton, OH
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| Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:48 am Post subject: |
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| Dorsal wrote: | | @Fool - you did NOT read the thread that Quad Nut linked in the very first post, under the word "this" in his second sentence, did you? |
OIC, I didn't think it had the bend in the middle like the freedom does.
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Quad Nut
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 2588
Location: Massapequa, Long Island
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| Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:42 am Post subject: |
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| Fool wrote: | | OIC, I didn't think it had the bend in the middle like the freedom does. |
The changes I've found to be helpful I listed in that other thread.
The LE will curve when it's framed, Chris. Even more when it's flown.
The Freedom plan has a slight offset to the center seam. 4 deg I think.
Anyway, I squared it up so I have more billow in the center when it's flown. That helps the kite to be more stabile when the wind picks up, by dumping the pressure in the middle.
I also use a taper in my vent screen, from 1" at the center, down to 1/2" at each end. That lowers the center pressure and helps with reverse and inverted flight.
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Mike
Joined: 21 Jan 2004
Posts: 176
Location: USA, Illinois, Champaign
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| Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 12:22 am Post subject: |
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| In the other post, you recommend a LE of 94", but in this pattern it looks like it's 90". Or is there a 4" center panel? |
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Quad Nut
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 2588
Location: Massapequa, Long Island
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| Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 12:54 am Post subject: |
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| Mike wrote: | | In the other post, you recommend a LE of 94", but in this pattern it looks like it's 90". Or is there a 4" center panel? |
The 94" LE would apply to mods for the Freedom, specifically.
It helps that sail to be more stabile and track better.
The sail plan above is another variation I have. I've found this one to handle evenly well at all angles and directions when flying. It's also a bit faster in forward flight then the Freedom, but still forgiving enough for the beginner 'REV' flyer.
IMO
The Freedom sail plan is a little 'shaky' when flying inverted and in reverse. It also billows too much in the center causing the inside TEs to luft at lower AoAs.
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Mike
Joined: 21 Jan 2004
Posts: 176
Location: USA, Illinois, Champaign
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| Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 1:16 am Post subject: |
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| I see. So does the plan here use the same bridle as a revolution? |
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Quad Nut
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 2588
Location: Massapequa, Long Island
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| Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 6:58 am Post subject: |
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| Mike wrote: | | I see. So does the plan here use the same bridle as a revolution? |
Yup yup. Pretty close, Mike
A little tweek maybe to get the handling you want.
P.S.
I found the bridle lengths from the Freedom plan were not quite right.  I tossed those and came up with my own lengths. |
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WayWord Son
Kite Builder I
Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 996
Location: CALIFORNIA... I know this is the truth...black cats ARE unlucky, note, tabby has only one eye!
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| Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 7:27 pm Post subject: darn |
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 anuother plan from quad! my "gotta build this list keeps getting longer and longer! how am i ever gona finish all the kites i gotta have!  hmm quad!
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longing for some tie dye RSN. just click the pic of the "Tie Dye Fairy" |
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Quad Nut
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 2588
Location: Massapequa, Long Island
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| Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 1:25 am Post subject: |
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Just bang 'em out, Jon.
I have 2 new quad designs and the 'Bow kite', currently on my list. 
I finished the quad I used for the seam illustration. Tuned up that one's bridle today.
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KiteSquid
Master Kite Builder
Joined: 29 Aug 2003
Posts: 11696
Location: USA Virginia King George
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| Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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For a new quad flyer I recomend the Tirips first and the Ryv1point6 second.
To purchase I recomend a Spirit (with some minor modifications) and a Rev 1.5 SLE second...
The Spirit is IMHO easyser to learn quad line techniques than the Rev type kites.
The Rev 1.5 SLE is a good all around kite right out of the bag, but if you swap out hte LE spar set with some P300's you will lower the low end of wind range quite a bit for the weight savings.
I recently flew a Tirips made from Orcofilm inside of the National Air and Space Muesium. What fun!!!!!!!
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KiteSquid AKA TakoIka AKA Harold of King George VA
PS Yet another post by the Squid... Doesn’t he ever shut up?
PPS The wind is like the air, only pushier.
PPPS All information provided is for hobby use. None may be used commercially.
PPPPS Vir sapit qui pauca loquitur. x11.5K
PPPPPS Please excuse my speling errorors. |
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Fool
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 1525
Location: Dayton, OH
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| Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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Hey squid, mind sending me a plan for the RYV 1point6?
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KiteSquid
Master Kite Builder
Joined: 29 Aug 2003
Posts: 11696
Location: USA Virginia King George
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| Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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I do not have a plan for the RYV 1point6 kite, that I will not send to your e mail addres.
If you were to find a plan for that kite somewhere on the internet, sadly it probally does not have the bridle board use procedures in it.... etc...
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KiteSquid AKA TakoIka AKA Harold of King George VA
PS Yet another post by the Squid... Doesn’t he ever shut up?
PPS The wind is like the air, only pushier.
PPPS All information provided is for hobby use. None may be used commercially.
PPPPS Vir sapit qui pauca loquitur. x11.5K
PPPPPS Please excuse my speling errorors. |
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Quad Nut
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 2588
Location: Massapequa, Long Island
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| Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Fool wrote: | | Hey squid, mind sending me a plan for the RYV 1point6? |
Chris, check with "Spence602". He might have the plan.
He PM'd a request for the DXF version of the one I posted.
According to Spence, he's built the 1.6 and couldn't get it to fly right until he changed the bridle.
He didn't sound all that impressed with it. 
Maybe you'll have better luck. 
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KiteSquid
Master Kite Builder
Joined: 29 Aug 2003
Posts: 11696
Location: USA Virginia King George
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| Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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I wonder where he got the plan 
More importantly, where did he get the bridle?????
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VR/
KiteSquid AKA TakoIka AKA Harold of King George VA
PS Yet another post by the Squid... Doesn’t he ever shut up?
PPS The wind is like the air, only pushier.
PPPS All information provided is for hobby use. None may be used commercially.
PPPPS Vir sapit qui pauca loquitur. x11.5K
PPPPPS Please excuse my speling errorors. |
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