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kitepoor
Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 276
Location: USA Virginia Harrisonburg
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 Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 10:58 am Post subject: fiberglass_vs_carbon |
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is there a general rough comparison between a given size fiberglass spar to a sutable Carbon substitution?
Or said a different way if the plan says .375 fiber, what Carbon spar should I use?
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Randy
a kite a nice thing
kite in the air a beautiful thing
kites to share the coolest thing |
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Stan
Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 598
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 11:22 am Post subject: |
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Try entering these words into Yahoo. You'll get lots of information:
spar chart Carbon kite
Stan |
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kitepoor
Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 276
Location: USA Virginia Harrisonburg
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you Stan
My that was an education! This is way more complicated than I had imagined!
I don't know enought to even start to understand what is contained in these tables! Except that it isn't just glass vs. Carbon, because there are several if not many Carbon spars, and each one has it's own properties
I think I will keep sewing for a while, maybe by the time the sail is finished I will learn something about the spars.
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Randy
a kite a nice thing
kite in the air a beautiful thing
kites to share the coolest thing |
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Steve D
Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 746
Location: USA GA Newnan
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Whatcha makin' Randy? |
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Stan
Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 598
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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I used to struggle with those charts, but I'm lucky enough to have a kiteshop with a large spar supply. I go in and feel them in my hands to compare stiffness and weigh them on the shop's scale.
One variable that isn't on the charts is toughness or durability. Some spars can take impact loads better than others, and wrapped FG is very tough. Last week I broke a Carbon G-force UL spar, and about 10 inches of it turned to Graphite spaghetti. 
Stan |
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KiteSquid
Master Kite Builder
Joined: 29 Aug 2003
Posts: 2966
Location: USA Virginia King George
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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We need a Mechanical Engineer and a Physicist who works in the R&D field to write and implement a test plan that would address the following tests:
Stiffness
Weight
Durability both under a set load and unloaded using some kind of shock loading device
Minimum radius of curvature at failure
We would have to get a large enough test sample of every kite rod and tube from different manufacturing lots on the market today to make the results reliable...
The results need to be delivered in tabular and graphical formats too.
Now we need the $$$$$$$$$$$ and time to make it happen...
I am quite serious about this, no joking around; this is needed data for kite designers
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VR/
KiteSquid
AKA TakoIka
AKA Harold
King George VA
P.S. Yet another post by the Squid..... Doesent he ever shut up???
P.P.S. The wind is like the air, only pushier. |
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KiteSquid
Master Kite Builder
Joined: 29 Aug 2003
Posts: 2966
Location: USA Virginia King George
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Stan wrote: | Harold,
You just love documentation, don't you?  |
Nope, I HATE the stuff, that is why I write technical manuals, in an effort to make at least one of them right..
| Stan wrote: | I hardly even use the charts anymore, since they are out of date and not always accurate for weight. The proof's in the pudding for me, so the feel of the kite in the air does it for me.
As a neo-Luddite, I prefer hanging out at the shop and feeling the spars, kinda like picking produce. 
I do see your point though, and I'd download the info and put it in my notebook.
Neanderthal Stan |
I love to walk down the isles of stores to get my hands on things....
I would love to have one of each kite spar on archive in the KiteCave so I could make a more informed buying decision, but I cant.
If Steve lived within a 1 hour drive of my house I would pester him whenever a new kite was in my head and needed to get out and in the wind... You know I would have to feel and bend a bunch of spars to pick out my favorite one for the kite I wanted to build.
In lew of that, I would love to have an up to date spar chart with more data on it!!!!!!!!!!! I guess I spent too many years living with Military Spefications... some stuff measured to 4 decimal places. Oscilators that are accurate to plus or minus 0.0000000001 Hz etc...
_________________
VR/
KiteSquid
AKA TakoIka
AKA Harold
King George VA
P.S. Yet another post by the Squid..... Doesent he ever shut up???
P.P.S. The wind is like the air, only pushier. |
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kitepoor
Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 276
Location: USA Virginia Harrisonburg
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Whatcha makin' Randy? |
Sorry haven't figured out the quote thing yet
I am working on a roller about 8' wide and maybe about 9' tall. Pretty general numbers since only the top half is under way. I am hemming and placing the corner reinforcemnt patchs now
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Randy
a kite a nice thing
kite in the air a beautiful thing
kites to share the coolest thing |
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kitepoor
Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 276
Location: USA Virginia Harrisonburg
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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Oh well maybe I did the quote thing ok OH Yeh!
I didn't want to post photos in case it really sucked. It is the best applique I have ever done... Well ok maybe tonight
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Randy
a kite a nice thing
kite in the air a beautiful thing
kites to share the coolest thing |
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KiteSquid
Master Kite Builder
Joined: 29 Aug 2003
Posts: 2966
Location: USA Virginia King George
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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We wanna see, but start a new thread in the CC&C section...
_________________
VR/
KiteSquid
AKA TakoIka
AKA Harold
King George VA
P.S. Yet another post by the Squid..... Doesent he ever shut up???
P.P.S. The wind is like the air, only pushier. |
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