Kitebuilder.com

[woodpekr]

Thread from kite making suppliers seems to be V33, V30, and for bags and such V46, Bonded Polyester. How am I doing so far?

I've done a little googling on sewing thread and it seems that higher quality polyester thread is of the "long staple" variety ( the fibers used to spin the threads are longer). Bonded means its coated.

Now lets talks about size: V-30 correseponds to government size AA, V-46 to B . . . .

But there's a bunch of other size designations, does anybody have a cross reference that will show the corresponding, V, Government, TKT, TEX, T, and whatever else there may be? What is the size designation on a spool of Guttermann's?

Thanks -- Rich
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Rich Durant
Portland, Oregon

[kiteguy]

I bet that Squid does. I saw it someplace on the net, but failed to bookmark it. Or if I did bookmark it, I forgot what the name was.
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Dave Ellis
Kites + Kids = Education

[Morten_DK]

I'd really to know too! -So far, I've been using a thread called Serafil 60, but it requires me to use at least a size 110 needle, which makes some rather large holes in the fabric. I would really prefer to use a 'normal' polyester thread (120 with a 90 needle) but is that too thin/weak ???
Morten

[wdrwilson]

I have been just using regular gutermann (sp?) thread and it seems to be working fine. I too am interested in the break down of differences between thread sizes, designations?

Cheers,
Bill

[Gary]

Oh boy, what a Pandora's Box we have opened here. Harold probably has more information on this than anyone.

Here is what little I can contribute:
For industrial/commercial grade threads;
'V' means it is polyester.
'H', 'HB', 'HSB' means nylon, nylon bonded, nylon hot bonded, respectively. What the actual chemical/process differences may be, I can only speculate.

The numbers we see, -30, -33, -46 are actually 'textile' numbers, or 'T' numbers, derived from denier. The 'T' number is about 1/100 of the denier. Denier is an early term for describing thickness of thread. Denier = the weight, in grams, of 9,000 meters of the thread. So, V-30 polyester thread has a denier of about 3,000, and a T-number of 30. Hence, V-30.

Stan Swanson is another devotee of denier and textile numbers and could probably really set us straight here.

To address Morten, 60 T-number thread would easily require a 110 needle. '30' and '33' threads are kite industry 'standard', and thread as big as '46' is used in high stress areas. 'Normal' polyester thread, to most kite makers, would be V-30. For whatever it may be worth, I have done some hot air ballooning, and they use thread numbers in the 100's. They use very big needles to sew nylon on which people's lives depend. I am not an advocate of the 'big needles weaken the fabric' argument.

Bill, buddy, I've made a gazillion kites out of Gutermans from the fabric store. I dunno how to do German characters here in the forum, or I would, to make sure it was spelled right. It's correct on Kite Sewing 101. Anyway, Gutermans from the sewing store is just fine, if you don't mind cleaning the sewing machine frequently. It is very linty compared with the commercial grade thread.

I hope Kitesquid chimes in when he gets back from MKS (Maryland Kite Society kite makers weekend).
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good heavens;
Gary E

[Morten_DK]

Thanks Gary!

Just one question then, what thickness thread should I go for ?

According to Kite sewing 101, the needle should be size 90 - I use 90 Schmetz denim, so that should be fine!

But regarding the thread, what should I look for (remember I'm i Europe). When I ask for 30 or 33 polyester thread in the sewing shop, they don't know what I'm talking about. From what I have seen, all sewing threads I can get are 120 (Armann? Could I get some advice from a fellew european kite builder ???

What most shops have is this one:

Amann SabaC: [from their website] is a universal and efficient sewing thread made from high tenacity fibers.
This 100 % polyester core-spun thread stands not only for optimum sewing performance and top seam quality as well. The extensive range of tickets in SabaC ideally fit the requirements of the various industries.

Help!

Morten

[KiteSquid]

To stir up the pot... Here is a some text from an e mail from a thread manufacturer (Not me )

The Tex size is a measurement of the gram weight of 1000 meters of greige or un-dyed or finished thread. Examples include: T-18 - T-27 for light weight sewing; T-30 - T-50 for medium weight sewing, etc.

The Metric size is the most common system used in Europe and is the number of 1000 meter hanks per kilogram (or number of 496 yd hanks per lb.). Examples include: 180 - 120 for light weight sewing, etc.
The Yarn size is a measurement used for the number of 840yd hanks per pound and is many times also referred to as the spun size. The yarn size generally includes both the yarn size and number of ply. Examples include: 46/2 representing 46's cotton count - 2 ply.

The average single-end break or SEB is measured in pounds and is only for comparative purposes and should not be used for minimum strength requirements.

The needle size listed is the minimum needle size recommended for the particular thread size. Generally using a smaller needle size will result in excessive thread breakage. The first number is the metric needle size (70) and represents the thickness of the hole the needle will make in the fabric. The second number is the Singer number system. This number can be converted to fractions of an inch by taking the Singer number and multiplying times 2 and then adding 8. A size 12 Singer needle then will make approximately a size .032 inch hole in the fabric.

In Hong Kong, a common ticket system used for spun polyester is using the yarn size but dropping the "/". Therefore, a 50/2 yarn size is called a 502, a 60/3 yarn size is called a 603, etc.

Bonded Finish: Refers to a finish applied to continuous filament nylon and polyester threads which coats the fibers giving the thread better ply security and abrasion resistance.


Back to me..

I heard somewhere that V- series thread size is a Military Specifcation, but I have not been able to find the details...yet
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VR/
KiteSquid
AKA TakoIka
AKA Harold
King George VA


P.S. Yet another post by the Squid..... Doesent he ever shut up???

P.P.S. The wind is like the air, only pushier.

[Dennist3]

Ok so bonded sailmakers thread is good stuff......
I got 2 4oz spools for my kite making.... here is the problem....one white one black.....
I LOVE the black...works great....used almost half the spool....

the white....it keeps shreading and bunching up in the thread path...I don't understand the same thread just different color....one is fine the other I can't get to work....

any ideas?

Dennis

[KiteSquid]

[Dennist3]