Kitebuilder.com

[ChaoticGemini]

I was thinking about trying to dye some Ripstop with a batik-type process.

What type of dyes will stick to coated fabric?

How can I remove the wax without damaging the Ripstop, or is there something (like masking fluid) I can use other than wax?

Thanks,
Tina

[KiteSquid]

[dpb]

Some batik designs transfer well to resist techniques and others don't (See http://www.batikfineart.com/). For those that do not, I would suggest high quality, light cotton (or silk) instead of Ripstop.

Dave
_________________
Cherry Blossoms fall like rain,
A lively kite steals the sky,
Paradise in a moment.

[ChaoticGemini]

Hi KiteSquid

Thanks for the detailed reply.

I have images of kites in my head, it's just a matter of trying to find a means to get them out. Doing artwork on kites is a whole new medium to me, so I hope I'm not asking too many questions.

Is there a certain type of acid dye I should look for or avoid?

Do you mind sharing the "special compounds" you use to get the dye to adhere? I already have a lot of coated fabric.

Your Iris Edo is some nice work! The tie dye designs look cool too.

I don't have any specific picture I'm trying to create, just some line drawings on paper right now and pictures in my head. My ideas are varied. One design is based on pysanky art (ukrainian eggs). Another involves celtic knotwork. Yet another concept would involve painting the dye to look like a water coloring.

I'm familiar with using wax on other materials, but I didn't know how I could get it off of Ripstop without damaging it. I was also thinking about masking fluid (like that used in watercolor painting). Since you say the dyes need to be heat set with water, perhaps the liquid masking fluid would work.

My hope is to extend my artwork on to kite sails. If my ideas are way to ambitious, please let me know. Perhaps there may be an entirely different method I may need to use, but I asked about this process because it is all I could think of.

Tina

[EBGB]

Squid,

Tina's not the only one interesting in dyeing fabrics!

I'm betting that there are a bunch of us, just quietly waiting for the guru to share his wisdom.

I'd love to be able to do watercolor style painting, do shading with an airbrush, or just dye some "fade" fabrics.
_________________
Take care,
Take flight!

Don Ostey

[wdrwilson]

I know this isn't really all that precise and probably not as nice as the method Squid suggested but try using good old laundry dye like RIT Dye found in the super market or in WalMart. I have had good results just using the dye in really hot water in my laundry tub. also for deeper colors try and do it on the stove. The colors are not as brilliant and it probably won't work with Polyester but on coated Ripstop it seemed to work well.

Imagin's Inca kite uses fabric that is dyed in this manner.. here is a photo.


--Bill

[dpb]

Honest Tina, I am not trying to blow smoke at you. Most kite makers in America are married to Ripstop, but you can get some wonderful effects with dying cotton and silk. This kite is hand dyed/painted cotton, and won cooperative class at Nationals in Delaware.



Batik has always worked well on cotton and silk, and I strongly suspect that it these fabrics will work better than Ripstop for this medium. Developing a Batik method for Ripstop is a great idea, but don't dismiss cotton or silk simply because you don't think that they will make a reasonable or competative kite.

Dave
_________________
Cherry Blossoms fall like rain,
A lively kite steals the sky,
Paradise in a moment.

[KiteSquid]

OK a couple of things I want to talk about..

RIT dye or any other dye you buy that says that it will dye cotton as well a Nylon.

Those fibers use two diffrent familys of dyes, so the nice people at RIT mix both MX and Acid dyes and put them in the little boxes.

So half of the contents of the box goes down the drain as it does not fix to the fibers you are dying.

It works well if you are dying a pair of socks but it is just not cost effective for yardage... but who said my posts were cost effective.......




Tina's question on Acid Dyes.

I have uses the dyes from Dharma Trading and from Pro Chemical & Dye, and both work EXCELENT!!!!!!! please read the MSDS for all chemicals BEFORE you buy them. It is your heath and the health of your family!!!!!!!!


The secret ingredant, well I dont quite have the chemestry down to a science yet, but I am willing to share what I know works and what I know does NOT work.... Are you ready???? Are you sitting down????


For Direct application of dyes (tye dye, silk paining techinques or any process where you are applying the dyes to the fabric by brush or squirting on)

Now this is based on the recipey from the dye vendor....

For Nylon fibers I replace about 1/2 of the water with Denatured Alcohol.....

For Polyester Fibers I replace about 1/2 of the water with Denatured Alcohol.....


I would prefer to use 100% Ethonol but I cannot find it here in Virginia and I cant afford to set up my own still.....

I would prefer to use pure Ethonol as Denatured Alcohol has stuff in it that makes you sick if you drink it, but it is mostly Ethonol. Please do not use Methanol.... It can kill you!!!!!!!!!

I use Alcohol as it is NOT repelled by the coatings and allows the dyes access to the fibers of the cloth...

Also sense Polyester is Hygrophobic (water is NOT attracted to it) I use the alcohol to cary the dye to the fibers.....


But the dyes do not stay in supension long so you have to shake your bottles of dye OFTEN, I am working on finding a water soulable oil that would work. I have bought some Castor Oil to test and am looking for some machineing oils as I understand that some of them are water soulable.


Now for vat dying...

I do NOT use Alcohol.... I just use the recepy that the dye vendor supplys.............. but I do try to get the PH of the soup to 6 or less by adding Citric Acid Crystals (oranges and lemons).... as it smells so much nicer that Acedic Acid (vinager)


Now for fabrics......

NO two fabrics are the same..... so cut a little piece off the yardage and test it before you go to the trouble of aplying art to it, as the coatings between two manufactures will differ a lot, so find a fabric that works (like the 0.5 Oz Nylon that Steve had on sale a while back as I KNOW it works or some other fabric and STICK TO IT!!!! Ask Steve WHO manufacutered the fabric and what is the manufactures name for the fabric (go to the manufacture's web sites to see that there are lots of diffrent .75 Oz Nylons on the market) and once you have a forumula that works STICK TO IT and share with us.

I cannot share about the Nylons that I have dyed as they all have came out of my trash pile (except the little piece of 0.5 Oz from Steve) so I dont know what the fabric really is......


Now class, are there any other questions????

Once again READ and UNDERSTAD the MSDS for all chemicals BEFORE you buy them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SAFETY FIRST when dealing with chemicals and tools!!!!!!


OH and when you got to measure any dyes and auxiluries, use tools that will NEVER be used for food!!!!!! EVER!!!!!! As this is UNSAFE!!!!!! I have tools that do NOT look like the ones in the kitchen and I keep them out of the kitchen so they will not be confused with food utensles!!!!!!!!!

Sepprate pots, measureing cups and spoons, mixing tools, storage jars etc...... all are diffrent than what is in the kitchen.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE POINT HERE???????

Also wear clothing that you do'nt care about when dyeing fabrics......

NO EATING, DRINKING OR SMOKING WHEN YOU ARE USING DYES!!!!!! EVER!!!!!






And like Dave said, Cotton, Silk, Hemp, Paper and other fibers work in kites too.

Look at any kite from China or Japan.....

I'll jump off the electronic soap box for a while as my keyboard is smoking..

And if you do dye fabrics using my advice please tell others that is is based on the SquidColors technique......... as I have abut 3 years of reasearch in this already.... and countless $$$$$$$$$$$ invested.
_________________
VR/
KiteSquid
AKA TakoIka
AKA Harold
King George VA


P.S. Yet another post by the Squid..... Doesent he ever shut up???

P.P.S. The wind is like the air, only pushier.

[ChaoticGemini]

THANK YOU KiteSquid I will be happy to proclaim SquidColors.

I guess I'll make my first attemps with some of the .5 oz that was on sale since you know that works. I have 30 yards of it, but I hadn't figured out what to do with it yet.

Just two more questions, if you don't mind...Will the fabric need to be prep-ed first? I know I've used soda ash with this type of process before. Where would I look for Denatured Alcohol?

Again, your info is very helpful and I'm very excited to get to work.

Tina

[kitepoor]

you can get denatured at a paint store. Cabinet shops that do solid surface countertops use it to clean before glueing seams.
_________________
Randy
a kite a nice thing
kite in the air a beautiful thing
kites to share the coolest thing